Organic Farmer Network: Network Discussion Summary
Topic: Hoophouses
Ken tells about their new hoophouse: “It is an Atlas Snow Arch frame -30x95.with 6 foot sidewalls so I can roll it open wide. It is the largest I have built and the first for which I have put anchor posts in concrete. I had not intended to, but the site was cleared of stumps shortly before I intended to begin construction and right about the time we got 6 inches of rain in 18 hours and when I drove the first posts in the ground they were way to shaky. If the ground is good and solid, driving in anchors has always worked for me. I have a very windy site and one house that was unscathed by Hurricane Fran, with driven anchors. Course the engineers and suppliers always recommend concrete....I also bought some extra trusses to strengthen the frame, I have seen snow crushed houses and it ain't pretty and I like to sleep at night and am sometimes away from home in the winter, so a little extra steel seems like a good investment to me.”
Mark tells about their hoophouses: “We have been constructing two new hoophouses (a single 20' by 96' house split into two side-by-side houses because of location); one just got the plastic pulled last weekend, and the other still needs end-wall construction and plastic. The lilies have arrived from Ednie Bulb Co. that will fill 1/2 of one house (720 figured to fill two 4' beds 45'long on 6" spacing, 4 rows per bed). These are a mix of LA Hybrids and Asiatics; I'll be able to report on variety performance later. Hopefully some will come on by Mother's Day. The other half of the same house will get lisianthus plants, scheduled to come in as plugs March 1. The other house will be planted to early lettuces, spinach, and brassica mixers for salad mix--these plants are already one month old, in our heated greenhouse (30' by 80'), in 128 Winstrip flats. We have enough plants to put 4 rows per bed on 3" spacing to cut for salad mix, and plan to put out early tomatoes in single lines down the center of each bed by early April. Paul, I bought your book at the SSAWG conference, and appreciate the ideas there! Also, this week we received Lynn Byzynski's new Hoophouse Handbook, another gem which was right on time for our construction questions. Although we've been reading about the hoophouses for several years now, it has been our experience in the heated greenhouse that had us itching to have more space.”
The Wiedigers add another hoophouse: “We're trying to get another 20 x 96 hoop house built before the end of October for winter production. We have 2 hoophouse in full production for the fall/winter, working on getting 2 more planted and this 5th one will be an experiment. We're using only single poly instead of double with air inflation, and also installing with roll-up sides. We'll be planting it to strawberries, spinach and a variety of other greens to see which can tolerate the conditions as compared to the double poly units.”
Nicolas ponders getting a hoophouse: “There is such a demand for fresh produce from the restaurants this time a year that I am looking at building a lot more high tunnels. Currently all veggies are covered with row covers and lettuces with small wire hoops and plastic. Everything survived the coldest weather( 8 degrees) but the covers are not very reliable with high winds. I also read Paul and Allison book as well as the growing for market guide to hoophouses. I contacted Haygrove Co. out to the UK to have a better understanding how their high tunnels work. I want to cover a good bit of space with high tunnels as I realized this year that the winter months are the busiest for restaurants and produce in general is more expensive. … I support my family on the farm income and the winter months tend to be high. I would like to be growing year round at a steady pace. The climate in Georgia allows me to do that but now I need some better structure and go at growing in the winter in a bigger way.”
Cathy notes the extremely wet spring has her seeing a value in hoophouses: “I know that I have not been very interested in hoophouses. However the mud and my wariness of working the soil too wet, makes me daydream of some kind of ‘bubble over our fields’.”
February 28, 2003, Ken points out another value: “Major ice storm here, worst I have ever seen….Tulips blooming in hoophouse.”
And come market time in April, another value of hoophouses is proven: Mark says, “our first 3 weekend markets have been very well attended and profitable (hoophouse salad mix, tulips, greenhouse stocks, container ornamentals and bamboos).” And Ken says, “We are selling hoophouse flowers and veggies in limited quantity, over- wintered spinach, the beginnings of field produce, and bedding plants. Plant sales bring in the most money in the first 6-7 weeks of market. Opening day March 19, we did $395, the following week $695, and for the 3 Saturdays in April we have averaged $1200 per market, nearly all due to indoor grow space.”
And in July when the rain still had not let up in Kentucky, Alison says, “Without the tunnels, we'd have very little - but they have helped us a lot.”
By fall, Charlie has decided to build a hoophouse and wants advice on what to buy: “I'm considering the Atlas 20' wide cold frame hoophouse, the Farmtec Clearspan High Tunnel, and the Stuppy High Tunnel. I'd like the size to be 20 by 96. My carpentry skills are limited, so I want something that is not too difficult to construct, and instructions are clear. Also after my experience this year with hurricane Isabel, I want something that will stand up to the wind. We don't get a lot of snow here in eastern Virginia, but when it does hit, it is always the wet, heavy kind. We are also prone to ice storms with our proximity to the ocean. Any suggestions?”
The Wiedigers respond: “I really recommend the Atlas RT series high tunnels/cold frames. To start with, Atlas provides an excellent instruction booklet that has grown over the years. Very detailed, and if you're unsure, just give their tech support a call. Price is good. $921 for their 20 x 96 RT series with 6-foot bow spacing. With your snow load, you may want to go with their 4-foot bow spacing. Atlas recommends that you concrete in their anchor post. We don't (we just drive them in), but with your winds, this may be a good precaution. I'd also recommend that you cut some 2 x 4's to fit up under the purlin that you can put in place if a blizzard or heavy, wet snow threatens.
Right now, Atlas also has a pretty good price on poly. We use an inner ir layer (4-year, 6-mil) and a second regular layer. A place to economize is with how you attach the poly to the hoophouse. If you need to scrimp, use recycled drip tape and 5/16" staples. If you can afford it, go with their wiggle wire poly lock system. I really recommend it! You haven't lived til a January storms pulls the poly (held on by batten tape) loose on a hoophouse! I can send you more construction information if you want, including diagrams for framing the endwalls.
Before purchasing, I'd ask for a freight rate.
And I must admit, if I wasn't growing during the winter, I would really look at Farm Tek's 26' x 96' clear span high tunnel with roll up sides for only $1995.00 including 1 layer of poly and endwalls.”
Charlie asks, “You said you would be tempted to look at the Farmtec Clearspan if you were not growing in winter. What is it about the Clearspan that you would not recommend for winter growing? Height? Construction?”
The Wiedigers: “The FarmTek unit I looked at was shipped with single poly and roll-up sides. Where we live, I'm not sure that we would get the continued growth through the winter months without the protection of double poly and roll up sides seem to leak air pretty badly. I like the rectangular bows on the Atlas RT series, the height (about 11-feet) and along the side walls, it is about 6-1/2 feet tall at about 2' in, so it's easy to work along the walls.”
Nicolas now has a hoophouse and offers this: “I just now finished building the 26x 100 farmtech clearspan high tunnel. it is easy to build, very tall (12 ft). definitely not made for any snow load. The wind has been having fun with it. For attaching the side plastic they send you fabric clamps . they just pop right out when the front and back are open ,tearing the plastic. I added wire lock around the structure to secure the plastic tightly.
Ken adds: “I like the wiggle wire (wire -loc) too. Like many others, I started out with recycled drip tape for battens on my first hoophouse 15 years ago. That one was framed with 1-1/2 in PVC. You can take a 20 ft stick of PVC and bend it to make about a 13' wide house. I coupled a piece and a half together and made a frame 20' wide. It held up amazingly well to wind, but no snow load till I ran a line of posts down the center. I wouldn't build another of PVC but it was a good place to start.
I have 3 greenhouse frames on the farm. The first I built is my heated transplant house, which is a Jaderloon Frame (jaderloon.com in Irmo, SC). It is very well engineered, has trusses on every arch. Jaderloon claims none of their houses has ever come down due to weather. One thing I really like about it is the connectors. It is not put together with tek screws like an Atlas house, but with various nifty connectors. It is also more expensive than an Atlas house, whichb is why I have built 2 Atlas houses for my unheated in- ground growing. One thing about the Jaderloon house I don't like is the plastic connector system. Rather than wiggle wire, there is a 2 peice extruded aluminum track system with one piece getting hammered over top the other. It tends to cut the plastic a bit, occasionally comes off and is more costly that wiggle wire. Definitely like the wiggle wire better.
My 2 hoophouses are Atlas snow arch houses 28x95 and 30x95. I have trusses on every other arch in the 28' house and on 2/3 of the arches in the 30'' house. I have 3' roll up sides on the smaller house and 6' roll up sides on the 30' house. My plastic is attached to a 2x6 on the side and hangs from there. It is attached at the bottom to a piece of chain link fence top rail ( light gage galvanized material) that runs the length of the house. I attached it by splitting a piece of 1-1/4 inch PVC on the table saw and screwing it to the galvanized pipe with tek screws to hold on the plastic. I made a crank for the end and the whole thing rolls right up… There is a little air leak with the roll up sides but not bad. Interior temp will till stay 10-15 degrees above outside on a cold night, if it is not windy.
I concur with Paul that Atlas houses have good instructions and are relatively simple to construct. I like the Snow Arch houses because they are sturdy. My location is very windy and although we don't get much snow, it is not unusual to get a big one, and sometimes I am away in the winter. The 2 big snows we have had in the last 4 years I was away both times… It was a relief to know I didn't have to worry about my greenhouse frames, so I would rather put more money into structure and not have to worry about them collapsing. I have seen collapsed greenhouse frames and it is not pretty, right Ellen?
One consideration is size, and at this point I would have to say there is some advantage to more smaller houses as opposed to fewer larger houses from a management perspective. If you only have one or 2 houses, you are likely to try to grow a bunch of different things in them and that makes climate management difficult. The more uniform your crop is with regard to climactic preferences the better you can do with climate control (ventilation/vs temp.) In the future, I am likely to put up smaller houses rather than any more as large as I have, although larger houses are warmer because you have a higher volume to wall ratio. These things hold a lot of heat, though, stored mostly in the soil.”
Alison notes that flower stem elongate in the hightunnels/hoophouses and this year they want to support the flowers with netting. She asks:
1)at what height(s) do you put layers of netting? and
2)how many bed(row) feet between the supports? and
3)what are you using for supports ? We are thinking steel t-posts with a 2x2 bolted between them at the height of the netting, but are open to ideas
Cathy reports what she’s heard from other producers:
1. First thing I know is they put the netting on immediately at transplanting. The plants grows up and you lift the netting up, its apparently a lot easier and easier on the plants this way. If you think you will need two layers, put them both on initially.
2. I've seen t-posts used, but don't make it hard. Let the "knobbies" on the post hold your netting, face the posts to the outside. If you have enough tension across the bed the net will be just fine. Seems like folks adjust the height by pulling on it away from the post, raise it and let it catch higher up.
3. Every layer of netting make it harder to cut the flowers. One might be plenty.
Mark explains their netting technique: “I am glad we are not using T-posts, and are using rebar instead. The rebar is lighter, easier to store in the off season, and works just fine. We're using 5' sections of 1/2", and have some 4' sections of 3/8" as well. There is enough roughness to the rebar surface that the netting holds well when pulled tight. We start at the end of the bed, and put pairs in every 4' or so. It depends on the flower and branching pattern how high we put the netting initially; I'd say we start usually at 2-3'. But for some things (like the stocks up in the greenhouse now) we have to start very low, since the stems start to fall over right away and we want to catch them upright. Moving the netting up the rebar can be tricky, too, depending on the flower. Zinnias, for instance, can get so branched that it becomes difficult if you wait just a bit too long.”
Ken responds: “I have limited experience with netting, but if I have not planted on black plastic, I wait and hoe a time or two before netting. Mark what are you using netting for that requires 5 ' stakes?”
Marks responds to Ken’s question: “ The snapdragons ended up growing to 4' and required rebar every 4' or so to keep from toppling. Also, our zinnias become head-high by summer's end and need tall rebar pieces.”
Alison asks: “We have our Lisi in the tunnels netted with just one layer. Will that be sufficient? Or should we put another one above it? Right now, they are supported just below the leaves below the first set of bloom stems.” [no response]
Ken wants advice with anemones and ranunculus in hoophouses. “I am growing anemones and ranunculus in the hoophouse for the first time this season. They are blooming now, but the yield is not going to be very good. When I first saw both and Frank and Pam Arnosky's a few years ago, they were impressive. Of course their Texas climate is dryer than here. Anybody have any experience with either of these? I planted mine in the ground in December. About 75% on my anemones turned white and sticky and rotted in the ground and never came up. The ranunculous came up well but many have not grown well. The week it rained for 5 days, botryits hit. When sunny weather returned, botrytis stopped. The ones that are blooming are gorgeous, the yield will be low, but if we can figure out how to produce then well, I think they will be a hit. Any suggestions?”
Mark responds: “Even a grower as experienced as Vickie Stamback is threatening to give up on anemones --even commercial fungicides did not help her this year. Her ranunculus, however, looked great at the end of March when we toured her greenhouses. I quizzed her about her thoughts on growing them in a situation like ours, where our greenhouse is not heated in December and January if we can help it; it can get down to 15 degrees or so inside periodically; the snaps/stocks/salads seem ok if covered with row cover. She thinks ranunuculus can handle this treatment. I just wonder if your hoophouse ranunculus had warm enough growing conditions early on--I'm planning to try them next year in the greenhouse growing beds, where it is much more protected than in the hoophouses.”
Cathy observed from the Wiediger’s video (click here for details about video) that they are stripping their flowers in the hoophouse as they cut. She asks, “Do you have any problem with molds, diseases from the organic matter left around? I guess that I figured you would have to be pretty strict about that sort of thing in an enclosed area.”
The Wiedigers respond: “Stripping foliage from flowers has never caused any problems. Occasionally, I'll pick up any old plant growth that looks as if it may cause a problem. Sometimes we see fungal problems where condensation has dripped. Usually this shows up in mesclun, arugula or mizuna. Then I just pull it out and dispose of it.”
Cathy wants to know how the Wiedigers pull out their t-posts that are in their hoophouse.
The Wiedigers respond: “We pull out t-posts with a post puller. Real simple lever device. You can purchase them at most farm supply stores for about $35.00. It's just a steel upright with an arm attached to a pivot point. At the end of the arm is a C-shaped piece of steel. Fits around the t-post and hooks under one of the knobs. Just push down on the lever and the post pulls up. Raise the arm up, hook drops down onto the next knob, push down, repeat until post is out of the ground. Super simple. This tool is in my top ten must have tools for any farm. In the hoop house, you have to pay attention which direction the knobs are facing so that you have room to work the lever.”
Ken wants to know about growing strawberries in the hoophouses: “I have done a few the last 2 winters, trialing. Not convinced the yield justifies the space. What variety are you planting, what spacing, planting date etc? They seem to be very suscepible to botritus in the humidity of indoors. I have them in a house with numerous other crops. Suspect I could manage better if they were the only crop per house and maintained cooler and less humid conditions. We did pick the first strawberry last year in February, but this year the early blooms froze when it was 4 degrees.”
Alison responds: “We planted Chandler ("the" strawberry for plasticulture, or one of the top few) in September. They came as large plugs, already rooted from a place in Maryland, I think. We used the wall beds in the tunnel, because they are a little too cold for many of our winter offerings, and we thought it might be a good use of space. We are a little too far north for outdoor plasticulture, and reasoned that the small amount of protection that the tunnels provide might make a difference. We spaced them a foot apart, mostly because that's how our drip is set up, and it makes for easy transplanting. We have seen no disease so far - but we don't have berries yet - only plants. They stayed green all winter, and are growing VERY rapidly now. We aren't sure about profits margins yet - plants are expensive, and so are bees, but we have no fuel expense - so we'll see!”
Wiedigers report new listserv for hoophouse/high tunnel production: “For those of you who have an interest in high tunnels growing, Kansas State University has set up a high tunnel listserv. Here's the link: http://listserv.ksu.edu/web?SUBED1=hightunnels&A=1
We're really excited about this opportunity to discuss high tunnel growing with like minded individuals. So, if you're growing in high tunnels, or thinking about it, please join in the discussion!” |
